what is MWF's scent?

FaTist

Forum GOD!
hey all
i know some think Mitchell's wool fat is a barbershop type scent, (ill go along with that though many others are much more bs then the fat) but i was trying to pick up on what 'notes' go into MWF.

no help from the actual mitchell's website. Anyone know, or can guess, what im smelling when im using the worlds best shave soap?

i have know idea what it is, but i like it.
 

Nav

Forum GOD!
hey all
i know some think Mitchell's wool fat is a barbershop type scent, (ill go along with that though many others are much more bs then the fat) but i was trying to pick up on what 'notes' go into MWF.

no help from the actual mitchell's website. Anyone know, or can guess, what im smelling when im using the worlds best shave soap?

i have know idea what it is, but i like it.
I also don't know the notes but the scent is intoxicating and so very soothing!
 

Dr Watson

James
The Kent website used to describe it thus:

'A fine fougere fragrance based around Patchouli, enhanced with extracts of Lavender, Pine and Clove on a spicy base of Nutmeg, Cedarwood, Sandalwood, Vanilla and Musk.'
Someone must have realised that was claptrap as it's been deleted now :laugh:

It smells of soap to me and calls to mind old fashioned doilies on dressers for some reason.
 

Nav

Forum GOD!
The Kent website used to describe it thus:



Someone must have realised that was claptrap as it's been deleted now :laugh:

It smells of soap to me and calls to mind old fashioned doilies on dressers for some reason.
Haha
I remember that from years ago and always thought it you be utter rubbish. Nothing like MWF.
 

morr

Forum GOD!
Will (from Barrister and Mann) analyzed the MWF scent a few years back, as he did with many other (mostly perfume) scents. Here it is copy/pasted:


Nope, definitely not a fougère.
It's primarily phenethyl alcohol (which is very powerful and likely not included at a high enough level for it to be part of their allergen declaration, but I definitely smell it), ionones, and trace amounts of various citrus-related compounds like hydroxycitronellol. It does also contain linalool (major component of lavender oil), but so do tons of other things that aren't fougères. Linalool is an extremely common ingredient in fragrances as a whole, so I generally ignore it as being indicative of anything in particular.

They list the scent profile as "Lavender, Pine and Clove on a spicy base of Nutmeg, Cedarwood, Sandalwood, Vanilla and Musk." Let's break apart the compounds listed in the allergen declaration to see where they get each of those. Some probably won't show up because they're either damn powerful and thus need not actually be included in the ingredient list because they're used at such low levels (like vanillin, which, if used in any great quantity, will heavily discolor the soap). Keep in mind that it's been a bit since I smelled Mitchell's Wool Fat, so I'm theorizing here what each particular declared ingredient is meant to represent, along with what I remember of the fragrance.

Lavender

Linalool. LOTS of it. Probably also some linalyl acetate, which is another major component of lavender oil, but is likely used here at such a low level that it doesn't cross the allergen declaration threshold (wash-off shaving products fall into IFRA category 9a, so the total fragrance concentration is not to exceed 5%, but I cannot find a resource for individual allergen declaration thresholds).

Pine

Limonene (which, along with terpineol, is a major component of pine oil in addition to multiple citrus oils) and hydroxycitronellal (an extremely versatile compound that occurs naturally in quite a few flowers).

Clove

Hexyl Cinnamal, also called Hexyl Cinnamaldehyde. Has a cinnamon-like scent at full concentration but, in dilution, can smell like cinnamon, clove, nutmeg, or any number of other spices. My guess is that they use it as the major "spice" note and then add minor corollary notes to emphasize specific facets.

Nutmeg

See my reference to clove.

Cedarwood

Not sure, to be honest, mostly because there are tons of woody synthetics out there. My guess is that they're incorporating methyl cedryl ketone, palisandin, iso e super, or some combination of those, all of which are cheap and fairly powerful, to generate the cedar and patchouli notes. You'd be surprised how much overlap there is.

Sandalwood

Again, they're probably using something cheap and POWERFUL; my guess would be the aromachemical indisan, which you can find by its chemical name iso camphanyl cyclohexanol. It goes for about nine cents per gram on the open market, but bulk purchases drive the cost down. I'd be surprised if they pay more than $30 USD per kilo for the stuff.

Vanilla

Most things that smell like vanilla will also oxidize/discolor soap like vanilla, which leads me to believe that they're either using very little of it (makes sense; I don't remember the fragrance being tremendously vanillic) or using something like heliotropyl alcohol, which smells very much like vanillin, is quite powerful, and won't discolor soap, but is also a weird/rare molecule and thus not cheap. My money's on the former.

Musk

Something cheap and powerful. They would have used nitromusks when MWF was first created, but nitromusks have been banned for 50 years. I'd guess low levels of ethylene brassylate and probably a macrocyclic musk that smells a bit like nitromusks would (possibly galaxolide, which is actually a polycyclic musk, but is somewhat possessed of the velvety character for which nitromusks were so famous). Still, most of the powderiness is probably due to the ionone content, so I doubt there's all that much musk in it.

Patchouli (because I've seen it mentioned in a bunch of the note descriptions for MWF/Kent)

Probably created by use of the phenethyl alcohol I mentioned along with α-isomethyl ionone, which also imparts a powdery, clean scent that would work well with the musks that I discussed preciously. Most ionones have facets of almond, violet, iris, and raisin (particularly noticeable in methyl ionone ß) at full strength, but the family as a whole is tremendously adaptable and can be used to impart any number of particular fragrance facets.
 

Dr Watson

James
Will (from Barrister and Mann) analyzed the MWF scent a few years back, as he did with many other (mostly perfume) scents. Here it is copy/pasted:


Nope, definitely not a fougère.
It's primarily phenethyl alcohol (which is very powerful and likely not included at a high enough level for it to be part of their allergen declaration, but I definitely smell it), ionones, and trace amounts of various citrus-related compounds like hydroxycitronellol. It does also contain linalool (major component of lavender oil), but so do tons of other things that aren't fougères. Linalool is an extremely common ingredient in fragrances as a whole, so I generally ignore it as being indicative of anything in particular.

They list the scent profile as "Lavender, Pine and Clove on a spicy base of Nutmeg, Cedarwood, Sandalwood, Vanilla and Musk." Let's break apart the compounds listed in the allergen declaration to see where they get each of those. Some probably won't show up because they're either damn powerful and thus need not actually be included in the ingredient list because they're used at such low levels (like vanillin, which, if used in any great quantity, will heavily discolor the soap). Keep in mind that it's been a bit since I smelled Mitchell's Wool Fat, so I'm theorizing here what each particular declared ingredient is meant to represent, along with what I remember of the fragrance.

Lavender

Linalool. LOTS of it. Probably also some linalyl acetate, which is another major component of lavender oil, but is likely used here at such a low level that it doesn't cross the allergen declaration threshold (wash-off shaving products fall into IFRA category 9a, so the total fragrance concentration is not to exceed 5%, but I cannot find a resource for individual allergen declaration thresholds).

Pine

Limonene (which, along with terpineol, is a major component of pine oil in addition to multiple citrus oils) and hydroxycitronellal (an extremely versatile compound that occurs naturally in quite a few flowers).

Clove

Hexyl Cinnamal, also called Hexyl Cinnamaldehyde. Has a cinnamon-like scent at full concentration but, in dilution, can smell like cinnamon, clove, nutmeg, or any number of other spices. My guess is that they use it as the major "spice" note and then add minor corollary notes to emphasize specific facets.

Nutmeg

See my reference to clove.

Cedarwood

Not sure, to be honest, mostly because there are tons of woody synthetics out there. My guess is that they're incorporating methyl cedryl ketone, palisandin, iso e super, or some combination of those, all of which are cheap and fairly powerful, to generate the cedar and patchouli notes. You'd be surprised how much overlap there is.

Sandalwood

Again, they're probably using something cheap and POWERFUL; my guess would be the aromachemical indisan, which you can find by its chemical name iso camphanyl cyclohexanol. It goes for about nine cents per gram on the open market, but bulk purchases drive the cost down. I'd be surprised if they pay more than $30 USD per kilo for the stuff.

Vanilla

Most things that smell like vanilla will also oxidize/discolor soap like vanilla, which leads me to believe that they're either using very little of it (makes sense; I don't remember the fragrance being tremendously vanillic) or using something like heliotropyl alcohol, which smells very much like vanillin, is quite powerful, and won't discolor soap, but is also a weird/rare molecule and thus not cheap. My money's on the former.

Musk

Something cheap and powerful. They would have used nitromusks when MWF was first created, but nitromusks have been banned for 50 years. I'd guess low levels of ethylene brassylate and probably a macrocyclic musk that smells a bit like nitromusks would (possibly galaxolide, which is actually a polycyclic musk, but is somewhat possessed of the velvety character for which nitromusks were so famous). Still, most of the powderiness is probably due to the ionone content, so I doubt there's all that much musk in it.

Patchouli (because I've seen it mentioned in a bunch of the note descriptions for MWF/Kent)

Probably created by use of the phenethyl alcohol I mentioned along with α-isomethyl ionone, which also imparts a powdery, clean scent that would work well with the musks that I discussed preciously. Most ionones have facets of almond, violet, iris, and raisin (particularly noticeable in methyl ionone ß) at full strength, but the family as a whole is tremendously adaptable and can be used to impart any number of particular fragrance facets.
He seems obsessed over how cheap the scent components are and how little they probably use... I don't see what he's trying to get at? Who is going to be surprised to learn their favourite £6/120g mass produced soap uses cheap fragrance ingredients?
 
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morr

Forum GOD!
He seems obsessed over how cheap the scent components are and how little they probably use... I don't see his what he's trying to get at? Who is going to be surprised to learn their favourite £6/120g mass produced soap uses cheap fragrance ingredients? Maybe he could of learnt something from them by sorting his soap base first before fannying around with scents :laugh:
I see your point but I don't think that's ill-intentioned, after all, as you said, a puck of MWF costs £6 and was probably less few years (decades?) back. I certainly don't mind as I quite like the scent of MWF but it certainly isn't an olfactory marvel.
YMMV, I personally hold all B&M bases in high regard. Actually, Will is pretty humble about his own creations and has always praised Tabac and Speick as excellent performers.
 

Dr Watson

James
I see your point but I don't think that's ill-intentioned, after all, as you said, a puck of MWF costs £6 and was probably less few years (decades?) back. I certainly don't mind as I quite like the scent of MWF but it certainly isn't an olfactory marvel.
YMMV, I personally hold all B&M bases in high regard. Actually, Will is pretty humble about his own creations and has always praised Tabac and Speick as excellent performers.
Perhaps he's just coming at it from the angle of a manufacturer, I guess if you spend most of your days analysing and creating scents you break them down to component costs out of habit more than anything.
 
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morr

Forum GOD!
Perhaps he's just coming at it from the angle of a manufacturer, I guess if you spend most of your days analysing and creating scents you break them down to component costs out of habit more than anything.
Actually, I think he's meddled with olfactology possibly before he started making soaps. He was very active on reddit with perfume reviews and discussion.
 
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