Tool marks on stainless razors?

PLANofMAN

Retro Razor Junkie
Just kind of curious as to what you guys think about tool marks on stainless razors?

My personal preference is for a nice polish, but not quite polished so much that it removes all of the tooling marks. I like being able to see slight marks that indicate that the object d'art that I'm shaving with was not cast, injection molded, or stamped.

It seems like most razors out there either go with a fully polished finish or completely unpolished. What do you guys think?
 

R181

Grumpy old man
To me seeing tool marks on a stainless steel razor indicates a semi finished product. I need no proof that the razor is solid stainless steel and not some other form of manufacture. Most businesses or manufacturers do not last too long if they deliberately misrepresent the particulars of their product. I'll tolerate tool marks that are not visible when the razor is assembled but not on visible exterior surfaces. The higher the outlay to purchase the higher the expectation of a finished product.

Bob
 

Batch300

Extraordinarily Uncomplicated
- polished razor would probably be No
- somewhat tolerant as my metal or woodworking skills are close to zero
 

Darkbulb

Member #10
Interesting question.
I actually like the idea of being reminded of that what I use is not a mass stamped product but rather a 'crafted artisan product'.
Things like manufacturing marks and irregularities can actually enhance that feeling and make your product feel unqiue and in an odd way justify the premium you paid for it.

For me I think it comes down to how the product was made;
- if truly handmade (like a piece of pottery or a carved coin, etc) I think some irregularities are perfectly fine as it brings out something of the artist, but
- if CNC machined I expect less 'reminders' of the manufacturing in the finished product.
 

wazza

a dog got personality
When you say tool marks, I take it you mean from being CNCd? If so then I like seeing the grooves. You get that on Hope bike products, which is a nice effect.
If it should have been buffed out then I'd not be keen.

With regards to being artisan razors, do any razor companies make their own razors or do they source a machinest? Just curious as I have no idea.
 

PLANofMAN

Retro Razor Junkie
...With regards to being artisan razors, do any razor companies make their own razors or do they source a machinest? Just curious as I have no idea.
It depends on the razor company. Some, like Wolfman and Timeless are machinists who happen to make razors in their downtime. Others, like Blackland, design the razors, but have machinists make them. He outsources production. Lastly, you have manufacturers like Bullgoose, who hired someone to design them, then finds a machinist to make them.

Edit: I don't know of any razor manufacturers who manually machine each razor individually. Wolfman might make a pass or two manually on the heads to custom set the aggressiveness of custom order razors, but that would be the extent of it. It really depends on how high tech the particular machines are that are making them. Some machines can swap out cutting heads on the fly, and a part enters the machine as a piece of billet, and comes out as a finished product. Other machines do a certain amount of work, and then the tooling has to be changed.
 
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bakerbarber

Forum GOD!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts for me.

I mean that it's a combination of looks and feel with functionality. To some extent cost is a factor for me too.

If the marks are consistent in appearance and are not sharp to the touch and do not interfere with the intended purpose of the product and the price is commensurate with the finish relative to other products offered by different makers, then it's fine.

If the marks are irregular looking it can be annoying. Especially if the product is relatively expensive.

If the marks are sharp feeling or interfere with the smooth function of the product that is unacceptable.

If the marks are sloppy and elude to lack of attention to detail or a lapse in quality control, then it's highly irritating.

If the marks are unexpected, or not usual for the product when observed in other parts made in a similar fashion and sold for a similar price by other manufacturers, then it's disappointing.

Sense of value and expectations of quality are perceptions that differ from person to person and even over time to the same person. Expectations can be tempered by good communication. Value is harder to quantify. Is it a lack of time or attention to finishing or is it an intentional or irrelevant 'feature'?

Specifically with razors, DE razors, I prefer the brushed finish or blasted finish. High polished pieces drive me crazy because I will notice every imperfection over time. Swirl, scratch, water spot, tea stains, rust spots, soap scum, tool marks, etc, etc, etc.

I don't like the finish I have seen on Charcoal Goods razors either. I can appreciate it, but it's not my style.

I like the finish on the brushed Wolfman and the handle of the latest Ikon SE. They're different from each other but neither are entirely raw cut with tooling marks. They are not slippery in use. They are not prone to show small blemishes.

The inside of the Timeless top cap is not something that bothers me. It's a unique texture and the reasons why it exists and why it's left in place were clearly communicated by the manufacturer. No worries.

The Flacon razor handle I just got off eBay recently is a huge example of what I'm saying about individual expectations and the fluid nature of how much the final finish can or won't bother me personally.

Screenshot_20170218-143822.png


I got that handle for $13.49 delivered. I full well expected it to be less than special. It's pretty much what I expected too. Rough with sharp edges and clearly visible tool marks and numerous imperfections. It does not bother me very much at all. I am considering filing off the minor burrs and rounding the edges a bit when I have time.

Had that handle cost any multiple of what it did I know my expectations, relative irritation at the imperfections, and willingness to accept the flaws would all fluctuate accordingly. At twice the price I might be slightly disappointed. At quadruple the price I might return it or at minimum complain to the seller. Anything more than that and I'd be shipping it back and mentioning it on the forums as something that might be avoided without due understanding of the finish.

At a certain price point I feel like there is a reasonable expectation that the finished product look and feel - finished.

Unless clearly communicated and clearly defined as an expectation either in pictures or in writing, I think anything drastically different from the product shown or described at the time of purchase would be unacceptable.

So I suppose that ultimately I don't personally mind tooling marks if I expect them, they don't effect the function, or are a trade off of the value proposition in buying low priced items.

If I spent a lot of money thinking that I was getting a top notch product and I later received something that looked like shortcuts had been taken or carelessness had occurred, then I'd probably just return the product and move on.

Communication and clear descriptions can go far in tempering expectations. Pictures speak louder than words. Words matter a lot though.
 

wazza

a dog got personality
Thanks for answering my questions @PLANofMAN . Genuinly didn't have a clue about any of the brands mentioned, with regards to the production of razors.
 

Darkbulb

Member #10
When you say tool marks, I take it you mean from being CNCd? If so then I like seeing the grooves. You get that on Hope bike products, which is a nice effect.
If it should have been buffed out then I'd not be keen.

With regards to being artisan razors, do any razor companies make their own razors or do they source a machinest? Just curious as I have no idea.
It depends on the razor company. Some, like Wolfman and Timeless are machinists who happen to make razors in their downtime. Others, like Blackland, design the razors, but have machinists make them. He outsources production. Lastly, you have manufacturers like Bullgoose, who hired someone to design them, then finds a machinist to make them.

Edit: I don't know of any razor manufacturers who manually machine each razor individually. Wolfman might make a pass or two manually on the heads to custom set the aggressiveness of custom order razors, but that would be the extent of it. It really depends on how high tech the particular machines are that are making them. Some machines can swap out cutting heads on the fly, and a part enters the machine as a piece of billet, and comes out as a finished product. Other machines do a certain amount of work, and then the tooling has to be changed.
Interesting 'tier' of artisanry actually.

Tier 1 - Designed and manufactured in-house
Tier 2 - Designed in-house, outsourced manufacturing
Tier 3 - Outsourced design and manufacturing

* I don't mean to imply that one tier is 'better' than the other.

Examples that I can think of;

Tier 1
Wolfman, Timeless, Rocnel,

Tier 2
Hone, Colonial, Option Five, Blackland

Tier 3
Bullgoose

I don't know if companies like Mongoose, ClassicShaving's Cobra razors and any ItalianRazor/RazoRock razors falls into Tier 2 or 3 though.
 
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