Sharpness vs Keenness as Described by an Old Solingen Grinder

[JPO]

When you buy a new razor with a bent spine the first thing to do is return it to the supplier for replacement. Trying to hone it will probably result in the seller refusing a refund. That is the message you should be trying to get across.

If you are asked to hone a razor with a bent spine you can always use a rolling action to ensure all parts of the bevel get attention - that’s where the experience, that @JamieM is referring to, comes in to play.

Your photograph of the Heljestrand above - what stone would you have used as a finisher if the spine was bent?

I agree. If the razor does have a geometry that is not within the fabrication tolerances of the fabricator, get a new one. I have not been able to get that information from any vendor. I doubt e.g. Dovo or TI would give that information.
If i had bought a custom razor, i would expect it to be close to perfect.
If a mass produced razor like Dovo had tighter tolerances, the price of that razor would probably be higher. If people started to send them back they might be forced to do something.
If you buy a razor from Jarrod, i would assume that he does some evaluation of the razor for you, and sends razors that have slipped through quality control back to his vendor. If you did buy a razor from him which for some reason you are not able to hone, and claim there is something wrong with it, i am not sure what he would do. He might just hone the razor for you and send it back, just to keep you as a happy customer, or he might tell you how you can hone it.
I bough a razor from a well known retailer in Norway. The photo showed a shoulderless dovo masters edition, which is stainless i believe. They sent me one with a shoulder, which is in carbon steel. I sent them an email were i said i do not care that the razor is not as advertised, but you should at least replace the picture on you web site. They still use the same picture. So what is the point. Many sellers do not have a clue about what they are selling, so trying to explain to them that this is not going to be ease to hone on a flat stone might not make sense to them. If you are lucky they will just send you a new one, without inspecting it.

The rolling x stroke only works on the curved side of the blade. A normal approach will be to hone the concave side of the razor in sections. Heel leading strokes for the heel, toe leading for the toe. The middle can be honed using the corner of the stone. At the end you can blend it together. Some of the initial unevenness can be adjusted by adjusting the high spots on the spine, and try to hone in/to a little smile. This is probably easy for JamieM, and might be part of the reason he hones 100 + blades a year.

If my Heljestrand had a bent spine i would have finished it on a convex finisher, like a coticule. I would like to preserve as much of the razor as possible. This was a new old stock. I can't just buy a new one, or get it replaced.

 

[JPO]

No drama, I hone hundreds of razors every year, it's an acquired skill that most practical-minded people can and do master, the last thing you want to do is start bringing up drawings and numerical equations that make it look like something you need a degree in geometry and mathematics to do, honing it's really simple you need a stone and a razor and lots of practice.

I left out the geometry part to make it simple, so since you mentioned it, and for those who do want to understand this, here is some background covering the geometry aspect.

 

[JamieM]

I left out the geometry part to make it simple, so since you mentioned it, and for those who do want to understand this, here is some background covering the geometry aspect.
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Being a timed served Carpenter Joiner, your charts are bread & butter to me, but if you want to scare away people from honing and straight razor shaving put those kind of things up, when I was a very young apprentice Carpenter Joiner the best way of learning a skill was repetition, the old Carpenters would get us to hang doors over & over until you could do it in your sleep, those drawings have zero use.

 

[JPO]

Being a timed served Carpenter Joiner, your charts are bread & butter to me, but if you want to scare away people from honing and straight razor shaving put those kind of things up, when I was a very young apprentice Carpenter Joiner the best way of learning a skill was repetition, the old Carpenters would get us to hang doors over & over until you could do it in your sleep, those drawings have zero use.

At the end of the day you are rubbing some steel on a rock and removing hair from your face (at least i do), and hopefully you have some fun doing it. We all enjoy different parts of the process. I have a flat coticule under my sink in the bathroom, which i use to maintain one of my razor. A pushed edge can be tedious to use, and may not be for everyone all the time, but sometimes i like to use a laser sharp razor when i feel for it and have the time. Other times i need to get out the door fast, but still like to use a SR without risking to slice my face of.
I also have a background as a carpenter, and i understand were you are coming from, and there is nothing wrong with what you are saying. I would probably be saying the same stuff as you do 20 years ago.
I took a masters degree in engineering, and my world got a little bigger. I was not content with just looking at the rock, i needed to know what was under it, how it was formed, and different ways to use it.
People get in to this with different backgrounds and different expectations.
It is not rocket science, but i think we need to look at what the old timers from France and Germany are telling us about how they did it (and still do it) over a hundred years a go. This goes into the part of respecting and listening to the craftsman who has done this for a long time.
As a skilled sharpener i think you can respect this aspect of it, at least i do.

 

[Gairdner]

Bugger me, I’ll stick with DE as all this thread had done has put me off honing entirely! Solingen? I’ll be solingen my hook from here before I get embroiled in this stuff.

This ‘you’re doing it all wrong’ carry on is a major trigger for my depression - despite doing well and showing promise at a new activity, I get drawn into the debate, the doubts form like Scottish rainclouds and the next thing you know, my hands won’t respond, I can hardly see and I’m shaking from head to foot. The hobby dies a death for years and you know what? If I’d just carried on as I originally taught myself, I’d have avoided the whole shooting match. That was how it was for me when learning the craft of Greenwood carving. I’m only now just get back to it and only because I’ve gone even further away from how most think it should be. Bloody purists! Pure in whose eyes? Make fun of my mental health and my response will get me banned, I guarantee it!

 

[Zhang Doe]

Sheldon Cooper if he got into straight shaving.

JPO, I will go and read through your posts when I have a bit more time. I trust most of it will be over my head, but there could be some good tidbits for my beginner self. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Gairdner]

Who the feck is Sheldon Cooper? And what do you mean by that? Bell end!
Aye. I know, banned. Well that’s just feckin’ dandy with me…

 

[JPO]

Bugger me, I’ll stick with DE as all this thread had done has put me off honing entirely! Solingen? I’ll be solingen my hook from here before I get embroiled in this stuff.

This ‘you’re doing it all wrong’ carry on is a major trigger for my depression - despite doing well and showing promise at a new activity, I get drawn into the debate, the doubts form like Scottish rainclouds and the next thing you know, my hands won’t respond, I can hardly see and I’m shaking from head to foot. The hobby dies a death for years and you know what? If I’d just carried on as I originally taught myself, I’d have avoided the whole shooting match. That was how it was for me when learning the craft of Greenwood carving. I’m only now just get back to it and only because I’ve gone even further away from how most think it should be. Bloody purists! Pure in whose eyes? Make fun of my mental health and my response will get me banned, I guarantee it!

If you get good results, and make good progress, you are doing it/something right. It is about having fun. I am not letting my DE razors go. Sometimes i just use DE's. I said in my first post that i am a stubborn love-child, and maybe a am a purist to.
Don't let me be part of your worries. One stone, one razor and a strop is everything you should need. Or you can let someone else worry about the honing for you. You then only need the strop.
Cheers

 

[Chris]

Who the feck is Sheldon Cooper? And what do you mean by that? Bell end!
Aye. I know, banned. Well that’s just feckin’ dandy with me…

He's a character in a sitcom and that comment was not aimed at you. I understand mental health issues and further understand that you thought that post was directed at you, however perhaps you’d care to reconsider it?

 

[JPO]

He's a character in a sitcom and that comment was not aimed at you. I understand mental health issues and further understand that you thought that post was directed at you, however perhaps you’d care to reconsider it?

Big Bang Theory sheldon i assume. I think he would have approached the razor honing thing the same way i do, and he would not be able to stop telling everyone about it At least we can joke about it without turning it into something else.

 

[Twelvefret]

Bugger me, I’ll stick with DE as all this thread had done has put me off honing entirely! Solingen? I’ll be solingen my hook from here before I get embroiled in this stuff.

This ‘you’re doing it all wrong’ carry on is a major trigger for my depression - despite doing well and showing promise at a new activity, I get drawn into the debate, the doubts form like Scottish rainclouds and the next thing you know, my hands won’t respond, I can hardly see and I’m shaking from head to foot. The hobby dies a death for years and you know what? If I’d just carried on as I originally taught myself, I’d have avoided the whole shooting match. That was how it was for me when learning the craft of Greenwood carving. I’m only now just get back to it and only because I’ve gone even further away from how most think it should be. Bloody purists! Pure in whose eyes? Make fun of my mental health and my response will get me banned, I guarantee it!

Please reconsider and don't get upset and banned. If I can hone anyone can hone. I started with a packet of 3m films $24 on a marble tile $3 and a $25 Illinois horse hide strop. It is simple and moving the razor forward and back. THere are more details if interested, but nothing you cannot accomplish.

I have a pretty thick beard and no facial hair which means I better have a good edge.

 

[Gairdner]

I’ve reconsidered. I’m off for a lie down in a darkened room, lots of pills and whilst I know that YOU REALLY DO understand mental health issues, you don’t know me and probably wouldn’t to. It would appear that I can’t do social media at all and now not even forums. Apologies. Just as I was enjoying being back too…

 

[Chris]

I’ve reconsidered. I’m off for a lie down in a darkened room, lots of pills and whilst I know that YOU REALLY DO understand mental health issues, you don’t know me and probably wouldn’t to. It would appear that I can’t do social media at all and now not even forums. Apologies. Just as I was enjoying being back too…

Will PM you, please don’t worry, you can absolutely do forums and are welcome here.

 

[JPO]

I’ve reconsidered. I’m off for a lie down in a darkened room, lots of pills and whilst I know that YOU REALLY DO understand mental health issues, you don’t know me and probably wouldn’t to. It would appear that I can’t do social media at all and now not even forums. Apologies. Just as I was enjoying being back too…

Just start a new thread which makes you in a better mood. I really do not know you, or if you are being sarcastic. I do not know much about mental health issues. What i do know is that everyone does have something in life they are dealing with. Some of us are blessed and have less to deal with.

 

[JPO]

Bugger me, I’ll stick with DE as all this thread had done has put me off honing entirely! Solingen? I’ll be solingen my hook from here before I get embroiled in this stuff.

This ‘you’re doing it all wrong’ carry on is a major trigger for my depression - despite doing well and showing promise at a new activity, I get drawn into the debate, the doubts form like Scottish rainclouds and the next thing you know, my hands won’t respond, I can hardly see and I’m shaking from head to foot. The hobby dies a death for years and you know what? If I’d just carried on as I originally taught myself, I’d have avoided the whole shooting match. That was how it was for me when learning the craft of Greenwood carving. I’m only now just get back to it and only because I’ve gone even further away from how most think it should be. Bloody purists! Pure in whose eyes? Make fun of my mental health and my response will get me banned, I guarantee it!

There is a whole thread at Badger and Blade about using lapping film for honing razors (the method edge). This is probably one of the easiest way you can hone a razor, with the least amount of investment cost. If this is not covered at this forum, people would probably be interested if you share "your" method. What film do you use, where to get it, what do you need to get started etc. You have probably figured out something that will help others, including me.