Pass arounds and unscrupulous members

[Wayne]

I have just been reading about @Steve Bowles Schick adjustable being badly treated and worse still the box going missing. I am disgusted and for me it calls into question the very nature of passarounds. I know we don't want to restrict newbies as they do not like it but, when things go missing it is never a well regarded member of the forum/s that half inches something, it is a newbie. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush here, everyone has been a noob but it is generally fact that when something goes astray it is more likely a member who has just joined or indeed just got over their probation period.
Sorry if this offends but seriously I wouldn't want to hand over a Tatara, Carbon or something equally expensive to someone who hasn't been around long enough to prove he isn't a wrong 'un.
I think you should have to cover the cost of the item before you get it by Paypal which is refunded when it get's to the next person in the queue. If it arrives you get an instant refund, if it goes missing then you claim on the insurance to get your money back.
I know this will be unpopular with many but it is a suggestion that could stop people just nicking stuff and disappearing.

 

[Chris]

I think you should have to cover the cost of the item before you get it by Paypal which is refunded when it get's to the next person in the queue. If it arrives you get an instant refund, if it goes missing then you claim on the insurance to get your money back.

The only way around it would be to exclude newbies from pass arounds, I don’t think the PayPal idea would be workable. I know some newbies may feel put out but if they stick around and earn their stripes they’ll be able to take part in later ones. I can’t see anyone reasonable taking offence at the need to build a reputation first.

Even if they miss a particular item a lot of us would be happy to arrange a loan to a member in good standing, a couple of people here have very kindly loaned me stuff to try that wasn’t part of a pass around.

Please note that this is my personal opinion, I’m not speaking as a moderator.

 

[Wayne]

In my view Chris mate if you put a £300 razor in the hands of someone you Do not know well enough through good standing without a deposit that covers it then no one has recourse when it goes missing in action to a bogus internet name and address. Why would pre payment to cover the item be unworkable? A Mod takes the deposit and when the next member safely receives the item it is sent back. If you cannot afford to cover the cost then you shouldn’t be borrowing it. What happens if it gets dropped or the threads strip, or something else happens? Surely covering the damage or loss is a sensible option.

 

[R181]

Unfortunately, William Shakespear had it right "neither a borrower nor lender be". That is about the only way to ensure stuff that this does not happen.

Bob

 

[Chris]

So what happens when you’ve sent on the item, the recipient is an unscrupulous newbie and they deny receiving it? A signature doesn’t necessarily prove anything, I’ve had a couple of instances of the postie signing on my behalf and then sticking it through the door, and someone at work lost a parcel after someone else in the building signed for a parcel and kept it.

Does the sender pony up anyway?

 

[SeanC]

So what happens when you’ve sent on the item, the recipient is an unscrupulous newbie and they deny receiving it? A signature doesn’t necessarily prove anything, I’ve had a couple of instances of the postie signing on my behalf and then sticking it through the door, and someone at work lost a parcel after someone else in the building signed for a parcel and kept it.

Does the sender pony up anyway?

Whilst not infallible, signatures are sufficient evidence of receipt to satisfy eBay and PayPal and short of taking a mugshot, I cant think of anything that is both more secure and practical.

Deposits don't work either on the grounds of practicality and introduce different risk of their own. The main sensible precaution I can think of for passarounds is upping the eligibility criteria to something along the lines of 4 months membership and 500 posts

 

[TobyC]

I don't borrow or lend, I've had to deal with the public most of my life and good, responsible people are hard to find. Even most of your friends and family members are going to be less careful with your stuff than you are. If you lend something, you should consider it gone, and be amazed if you ever see it again. In today's world, when lending something you need to be prepared to be sued by the borrower for personal injury, even if the product was knowingly misused by the borrower. Honest, sharing people will always be the victim, the average borrower couldn't care less.

 

[Mr Bigmem]

I have just been reading about @Steve Bowles Schick adjustable being badly treated and worse still the box going missing. I am disgusted and for me it calls into question the very nature of passarounds. I know we don't want to restrict newbies as they do not like it but, when things go missing it is never a well regarded member of the forum/s that half inches something, it is a newbie. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush here, everyone has been a noob but it is generally fact that when something goes astray it is more likely a member who has just joined or indeed just got over their probation period.
Sorry if this offends but seriously I wouldn't want to hand over a Tatara, Carbon or something equally expensive to someone who hasn't been around long enough to prove he isn't a wrong 'un.
I think you should have to cover the cost of the item before you get it by Paypal which is refunded when it get's to the next person in the queue. If it arrives you get an instant refund, if it goes missing then you claim on the insurance to get your money back.
I know this will be unpopular with many but it is a suggestion that could stop people just nicking stuff and disappearing.

Mate you saw what happened to the newbie box passaround. All it needs is some dodgy person and they screw it up for everyone.

Its a sad sad day

 

[TobyC]

I have just been reading about @Steve Bowles Schick adjustable being badly treated and worse still the box going missing. I am disgusted and for me it calls into question the very nature of passarounds. I know we don't want to restrict newbies as they do not like it but, when things go missing it is never a well regarded member of the forum/s that half inches something, it is a newbie. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush here, everyone has been a noob but it is generally fact that when something goes astray it is more likely a member who has just joined or indeed just got over their probation period.
Sorry if this offends but seriously I wouldn't want to hand over a Tatara, Carbon or something equally expensive to someone who hasn't been around long enough to prove he isn't a wrong 'un.
I think you should have to cover the cost of the item before you get it by Paypal which is refunded when it get's to the next person in the queue. If it arrives you get an instant refund, if it goes missing then you claim on the insurance to get your money back.
I know this will be unpopular with many but it is a suggestion that could stop people just nicking stuff and disappearing.

Where did you read that?

 

[Stonec0ld]

It's such a shame that a few bad apples spoil it for everyone. I've only been a member for a year if that and participated in a couple of pass arounds which has been one of the highlights for me of this forum. Yes it may have been an enabler to spending more money, but it's a wonderful part of this hobby to share a common experience and your views on the same item.

Personally I don't think a deposit would work as if I had that kinda money spare I'd by the item, but that's just me.
Hopefully it's just a phase and the pass arounds continue, even if it's just for those that have been here a while as then it at least encourages people to participate for a while.

 

[Wayne]

Where did you read that?

It's in the lending section under Schick adjustable.

 

[Wayne]

So what happens when you’ve sent on the item, the recipient is an unscrupulous newbie and they deny receiving it? A signature doesn’t necessarily prove anything, I’ve had a couple of instances of the postie signing on my behalf and then sticking it through the door, and someone at work lost a parcel after someone else in the building signed for a parcel and kept it.

Does the sender pony up anyway?

Short of handing the item over yourself a next day signed for service is the best you are going to get, there is no other way around it when posting stuff, things happen. Now if I sent an item and you insisted it has not arrived and the signature is fraudulent I'd be more inclined to believe you then someone called Billy Big Shave from Ecuador with 4 weeks membership and 12 posts which mainly consist of "I agree"
I know it is difficult to ask for a deposit on high cost items but if it is insured by the sender (As is required in the terms of most passarounds) but it shouldn't be posted to an office or place of work, it should go to a real address, if you miss it you go collect it from the sorting office, If you are called Mr Smith and Miss jones signs for it then it is the Lenders fault for not ensuring this cannot happen. If you put £100 deposit down it should discourage a lot of those kind of people from getting involved, they only want to nick the free stuff.
Believe me there is someone out there on almost every forum just waiting to get their mitts on a high cost SS razor or brush and then disappearing, never to be seen again.

 

[RussellR5555]

I thought there was a restriction on here of 3 Month Membership , at least for some of the passarounds I think , I was lucky enough to be lent the Stick Krona from Andreas. It would be a shame to have to stop it, but if these sort of things happen then not much choice but to either have a deposit that covers the cost of replacement or stop it I guess.

I have dealt with a lot of people on here BST and UKWSS BST and guess lucky so far as they have all been very straight and honest people.

 

[sev-8]

I received a Fatboy as part of a pass-around when I'd only been DE shaving for 6 or 8 weeks. While I really appreciated the opportunity, to be honest I don't think I understood enough and had good enough technique to make the most of it at the time. As a result I think that you need to show that you're a member of good standing and the Lending Pool should be more restrictive than the BST (with BST you have the rest of your life to dial in a new razor, with Lending Pool, a week or 2).

For PIFs on the Wetshaving subreddit, they check the 'karma' of the poster on the subreddit and whoever is PIFing can set the minimum karma that you need to take part, so it's not a blanket value for all PIFs. Bit more of a faff, but if each pass-around thread defined the number of posts/points/age required of a forum user, it could be higher for more expensive items and lower for the more common. May mean that the owner of an item has to do a bit more admin work, but could avoid taking deposits?

 

[TobyC]

That is an interesting point, newbies should be working on proper methodology and sticking with one razor for a while, not trying razors that they won't be able to use properly in the first place. You wouldn't lend your Ferrari to a kid who is still learning how to drive.