How much have Razors improved ?

Tyke121

Forum GOD!
Hi ,I have some decent De razors ,Timeless ,Karve etc and still waiting for the Pils but Ive got a small collection of vintage Se s 1912,1914 Gem mmoc for instance ,Why am I reaching for the se s first ,I’m getting equally good shaves with the old se s as the new de s for a fraction of the price ,I guess se blades are better now , Has razor design improved much over the years or are we spoiled for choice now ,Maybe we need to try different razors out of curiosity,The old boys certainly could make a razor either way
 

pjgh

Forum GOD!
Echoing sentiments around the straight, the safety razor is a simple enough device that holds the blade close enough to the face to shave without the risk of beaching the edge into the skin. The straight is the cleanest design, although not the safest and do remember that many of the first safety razors were simply wedge holders, the wedge being "an inch or so of hollow ground straight edge".

Across something like 1000 safety razors that have come through my hands going back to the 1880s, I really can't fault the 1912 (or 1919 as it really should be known). I also can't fault the Gillette 1904 patent, nor Autostrop's early line like the 7 O'Clock or Valet (especially the VC1). Indeed, blade technology no doubt improved over time with one or two real classics alongs the way.

Consider this, though ...

For razors, mass production has inevitably led to a razor that is cheaper to produce and so we could argue that razors themselves reached a peak somewhere. Gillette, for example, say a most definite cheapening of materials and so quality of razor from the 1950s. Their Tech was really quite something in the 1940s but by the 1960s we're seeing a shade of its former self and by the 1970s, a really poor item by comparison. Likewise, the 1912 hit production excellence by the end of the 1940s but later examples saw the thickness of the sheet metal thinning, and I have a very late example which really is poor.

For blades, it was all about the quality from the 1910s onwards, with each blade being a genuine technological improvement over the last, either in material or production finesse. Again, mass production saw miles and miles of blade ribbon being cut into single blades each day. Technology got about as far as it could and so any improvement was purely in the marketing ... stainless, teflon, titanium edge, medical, lab, etc.

Most recently, cartridges have actually pretty good blades, but cost a fortune and so we hit this final nail on the head - it's not about technical excellence either in the razor or the blade, but in the marketing to give the illusion of improvement with each new generation. That, and an ever more convoluted means of locking the buyer into an exclusive format that keeps a good step ahead of the interest rate.

So, yes, both razors and blades have got better ... but they have (both) reached their peak some decades ago. What used to be a battle of which was genuinely best is now a war of marketing.
 
I’ve used straight for years but working outside in wet conditions the old hands aren’t good enough for straights now ,Hardly any grip now I’m afraid
That’s a shame but I suppose it will come to us all. To me they were all just blade holders and nothing compared. There’s some huge mark-ups in the modern DE world, I don’t know how that compares historically but I can’t help but feel that there’s an air of ‘hipster’ about ‘traditional wet shaving’ that’s being financially exploited. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head though.
 

p.b

Forum GOD!
Echoing sentiments around the straight, the safety razor is a simple enough device that holds the blade close enough to the face to shave without the risk of beaching the edge into the skin. The straight is the cleanest design, although not the safest and do remember that many of the first safety razors were simply wedge holders, the wedge being "an inch or so of hollow ground straight edge".

Across something like 1000 safety razors that have come through my hands going back to the 1880s, I really can't fault the 1912 (or 1919 as it really should be known). I also can't fault the Gillette 1904 patent, nor Autostrop's early line like the 7 O'Clock or Valet (especially the VC1). Indeed, blade technology no doubt improved over time with one or two real classics alongs the way.

Consider this, though ...

For razors, mass production has inevitably led to a razor that is cheaper to produce and so we could argue that razors themselves reached a peak somewhere. Gillette, for example, say a most definite cheapening of materials and so quality of razor from the 1950s. Their Tech was really quite something in the 1940s but by the 1960s we're seeing a shade of its former self and by the 1970s, a really poor item by comparison. Likewise, the 1912 hit production excellence by the end of the 1940s but later examples saw the thickness of the sheet metal thinning, and I have a very late example which really is poor.

For blades, it was all about the quality from the 1910s onwards, with each blade being a genuine technological improvement over the last, either in material or production finesse. Again, mass production saw miles and miles of blade ribbon being cut into single blades each day. Technology got about as far as it could and so any improvement was purely in the marketing ... stainless, teflon, titanium edge, medical, lab, etc.

Most recently, cartridges have actually pretty good blades, but cost a fortune and so we hit this final nail on the head - it's not about technical excellence either in the razor or the blade, but in the marketing to give the illusion of improvement with each new generation. That, and an ever more convoluted means of locking the buyer into an exclusive format that keeps a good step ahead of the interest rate.

So, yes, both razors and blades have got better ... but they have (both) reached their peak some decades ago. What used to be a battle of which was genuinely best is now a war of marketing.
yeah - this.
 

Tyke121

Forum GOD!
That’s a shame but I suppose it will come to us all. To me they were all just blade holders and nothing compared. There’s some huge mark-ups in the modern DE world, I don’t know how that compares historically but I can’t help but feel that there’s an air of ‘hipster’ about ‘traditional wet shaving’ that’s being financially exploited. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head though.
Trouble is I’m only 56 lol
 

R181

Grumpy old man
As far as I'm concerned vintage DEs/SEs perform as well as their new fangled counterparts if the shave is all you are after. The pricey new production DEs/SEs are built to a high standard and you pay for limited production and all stainless steel or some other exotic metal construction so you get some bragging rights.

I can't tell the difference in shaves between a 200 year old straight razor and a modern one if both are shave ready. so, there is no gain in shave quality for me. Again new made straight razors are, well new, and limited in production numbers as suits a niche market. In new production straight razors you pay a premium over the base model for embellishments. Keep in mind pretty don't shave the blade does. The use of exotic modern steels in blade production is superfluous as it is just not needed but is a marketing point from my pov. Keep in mind stainless steel is not a modern exotic steel being around for about 100 years now.

Bob

I should add that DE/SE blades, I think, have gotten better with the introduction of modern coatings.

Bob
 
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Batch300

Extraordinarily Uncomplicated
Reminds me of turntables in the audio world. 30 years ago, many excellent turntables and many manufacturers. 15 years ago, some nice turntables still but little innovation or product improvements. Today, niche market growing for vinyl and turntables. Several new designs, new products, and new manufacturers. I would think most people agree with turntables being better today starting at the entry level for nice quality music.

60 years ago, the manufacturing mentality was "Indestructible". Gillette razors were one example and still provide nice shaves today. I still think some new designs are improvements over vintage. I also agree with @R181 on blades probably better today.
 

Tyke121

Forum GOD!
Improved? How?
In my opinion there’s very little improvement,I’d never sell my Timeless or Pils but my 1912 and mmoc provide equally good shaves for a tenth of the price ,Maye it’s more of an hobby now ,The old boys in the 20s 30s would never have classed shaving gear as a hobby I doubt ,We have a drive for shiny things and will keep buying while companies keep making ,How far can we go though razors can’t get much better ,Software is incredible now ,But we will keep looking and buying ,Itsva bug lol
 
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