Feather and Kai shaves

[chazt]

I’m having the most fun shaves in over a decade with my new AC obsession! But here’s the thing.. my shaves are so good now, I don’t need to shave the day after. The Feather razors are that good!

edited to add the following charts from the Feather website:

if anybody can find similar graphics from Kai please post them…

Razors & Blades

kasho.kaiusa.com

 

[Twelvefret]

I’m having the most fun shaves in over a decade with my new AC obsession! But here’s the thing.. my shaves are so good now, I don’t need to shave the day after. The Feather razors are that good!

More than anything, you are having fun, and that makes me happy.

I agree, they really are "that good". Asking for a friend, would the same blade perform as well in a safety razor design with a guard of some configuration? If not, is part of the effectiveness due to the skills and proprioception of the user?

 

[chazt]

Good question. Idk yet. Phil is sending an Asylum Rx which should be here Monday. It will be my first AC safety razor. I’ll play around with it next week.

 

[chazt]

I’m slowly working through the various threads in the shavette section. Beyond reading other people’s opinions, my experiential frame of reference is limited to barely over a month of Feather AC shaves with the DX and SR folding versions. Btw, the majority of the conversational threads have been dormant for a while. I invite your current thoughts and comments here going forward. Forgive me in advance if my thoughts seem disjointed and random. They likely are. Please be patient with me.

One consistent observation regarding Feather razors is the commonly stated hypothesis that a beginner would realize satisfying results by starting out with the SS model due to its design, i.e., the skin stretching “lip,” and then work their way through the range, up to the DX, the blade of which is purported to most closely resemble the geometry of a straight razor (note: the preceding may or may not be a run on sentence, although it does seem to be grammatically and syntactically correct as per APA style. My executive function occasionally yields to silliness). As I learn of the range’s evolution, a few questions and comments arise.

In no particular order:

which came first, the blade or the holder? I’m guessing they were originally introduced as part of an integrated system.

design wise, the SR is a logical evolutionary addition to the lineup, finding an interesting niche between the SS and DX.

I wasn’t hip to the common wisdom and started this shaving tangent with the DX. The SR came second. Based on my shaves and experiences to date, I can pretty safely extrapolate that based on what I know of the SS model it doesn’t seem likely that one will wind up on my shelf any time soon. But otoh, never say never..

To date, I’ve used the Kai guarded blade for all my shaves but one. For that shave I used a Feather pro light (green box?) and although I finished the shave, decided that for the time being the guarded blades were perfectly fine for learning the genre.

The wooden scales on the Feather blade holders are quite the bit of eye candy!

Should I, do I, want and or need to try a Kai variant? If so, which one? At this point I don’t want, need or seek redundancy. The Kai Woody is an option in that case. Does anyone have knowledge or even pics of the Kai and Feather holders’ geometry side by side?

Talk to me.

 

[Twelvefret]

I’m slowly working through the various threads in the shavette section. Beyond reading other people’s opinions, my experiential frame of reference is limited to barely over a month of Feather AC shaves with the DX and SR folding versions. Btw, the majority of the conversational threads have been dormant for a while. I invite your current thoughts and comments here going forward. Forgive me in advance if my thoughts seem disjointed and random. They likely are. Please be patient with me.

One consistent observation regarding Feather razors is the commonly stated hypothesis that a beginner would realize satisfying results by starting out with the SS model due to its design, i.e., the skin stretching “lip,” and then work their way through the range, up to the DX, the blade of which is purported to most closely resemble the geometry of a straight razor (note: the preceding may or may not be a run on sentence, although it does seem to be grammatically and syntactically correct as per APA style. My executive function occasionally yields to silliness). As I learn of the range’s evolution, a few questions and comments arise.

In no particular order:

which came first, the blade or the holder? I’m guessing they were originally introduced as part of an integrated system.

design wise, the SR is a logical evolutionary addition to the lineup, finding an interesting niche between the SS and DX.

I wasn’t hip to the common wisdom and started this shaving tangent with the DX. The SR came second. Based on my shaves and experiences to date, I can pretty safely extrapolate that based on what I know of the SS model it doesn’t seem likely that one will wind up on my shelf any time soon. But otoh, never say never..

To date, I’ve used the Kai guarded blade for all my shaves but one. For that shave I used a Feather pro light (green box?) and although I finished the shave, decided that for the time being the guarded blades were perfectly fine for learning the genre.

The wooden scales on the Feather blade holders are quite the bit of eye candy!

Should I, do I, want and or need to try a Kai variant? If so, which one? At this point I don’t want, need or seek redundancy. The Kai Woody is an option in that case. Does anyone have knowledge or even pics of the Kai and Feather holders’ geometry side by side?

Talk to me.

To me, the scales on the SS are the most attractive.

We have to consider the professional market. Would you rather shave someone with one that uses half DE blades or an AC Feather? If the SS is proported to be milder, which would you feel more confident using, the SS or DX?

I've considered the Kai Kasho Captain, but all reviews say it is more mild than the DX.

I think humans are influenced by information from who we consider experts. I've never read a review which says the SS isn't milder than the DX. Now the DX is milder than the Tedalus. It does not help that the DX costs more thant the SS and the Tedalus costs more than the DX.

There is also confirmation bias, the DX is more aggressive (whatever that means) and since that I what I want to think, the revenues support my opinion.

All this said, I am probably going to order a DX for the experience. When I consider folks spending $500 for a DE, that looks like a three-piece Gillette, the DX is now looking cheap and especially for what you can achieve.

Since you have a DX and an SR, the Kai Kasho Captain is the next rational step. Don't let yourself miss the boat. "It only costs and little bit more........

 

[chazt]

To me, the scales on the SS are the most attractive.
Yes, I quite agree. More of a dog leg, as it were.

We have to consider the professional market. Would you rather shave someone with one that uses half DE blades or an AC Feather?
Depends. Do I want to give my client the closest, safest shave possible with a blade that most closely resembles the traditional barber’s razor, or do I want to save money and use blades which might have a greater tendency to nick my client?

If the SS is proported to be milder, which would you feel more confident using, the SS or DX?
If I were a professional barber, theoretically it wouldn’t be much of an issue which one I used as long as the result was stellar.

I've considered the Kai Kasho Captain, but all reviews say it is more mild than the DX.
I don’t see too many references to Kai AC razors. There must be photos available somewhere of the various head geometries. I’ll snoop around the www, see what comes up.

I think humans are influenced by information from who we consider experts. I've never read a review which says the SS isn't milder than the DX. Now the DX is milder than the Tedalus. It does not help that the DX costs more thant the SS and the Tedalus costs more than the DX.
Perhaps we should talk about a razor’s relative efficiency and smoothness, rather than it’s level of mildness or aggression?


There is also confirmation bias, the DX is more aggressive (whatever that means) and since that I what I want to think, the revenues support my opinion.
? Not sure if I follow.

All this said, I am probably going to order a DX for the experience.


When I consider folks spending $500 for a DE, that looks like a three-piece Gillette, the DX is now looking cheap and especially for what you can achieve.
Agreed. £ for £, $ for $, € for €, it’s hard to get a better shave.

Since you have a DX and an SR, the Kai Kasho Captain is the next rational step. Don't let yourself miss the boat. "It only costs and little bit more........
You are a sly enabler, Sir. I like the way you think.

 

[Twelvefret]

Sorry, poorly written. The DX is said to be more aggressive which allows me to rationalize the cost.

From what I have read, Kai and Feather were once a part of the same corporate umbrella producing blades. Today they are separate.

The two upper end razors are the Excelia and Carbon Kamisori type

Excelia Razor
Carbon Fiber Straight Razor

One advantage for me with the Kai is to experience a different brand. Captain Folding


I found a couple Japanese vendors with the DX for $135 range and import fees included. I am waiting for them to confirm that indeed there will be no additional costs.

Some US vendors list the Kai at $109 and free shipping on eBay.

 

[Twelvefret]

I won the AC Feather DX "Japanese type". I found this resource for the line, shavewiththomas.com/1644/feather-professional-artist-club-razors-the-ultimate-shavette/ I have not used a Kamisori type SR before. The additional blade exposure will make the first uses an adventure.



The DX line exhibits a "hairline" stainless steel finish. I am reading this finish is better for items that are handled and might be scratched. It is non reflective. This process requires a hand on process, which may explain the higher prices for these models.

 

[UKRob]

Here’s a thought to add to your other considerations - quite some time ago a member on another forum suggested that the reason you get a closer shave from an unguarded blade is because of the squeegee effect. His explanation was that the angle of the blade against the skin causes whiskers to stand up and be cut much more closely than a guarded blade - even though in both cases the blades are cutting at skin level. In effect, the squeegee effect created a situation where hairs were cutting lower than skin level.

i always thought that my shaves ere equally as close whether I used a DE, SE or straight razor - however, the theory above may explain why a straight/shavette bladed shave lasts longer than a guarded SE or DE.

 

[Twelvefret]

Used the Feather SS this am with a blade that I retired upon completion.

One thing I remember someone saying when reviewing his DX is the need for a wetter lather than with his safety razors. I noticed this today. Since the shaving process is slowed, a reapplication of wet lather can help glid the blade and reduce drag. This morning I think the dulling blade was the drag I felt.

All this said, I still obtained a good result using a WTG and one horizontal pass. The blade may have contributed to my poor ATG experience a few days back.

I am looking forward to experiencing the DX soon.

 

[chazt]

@Twelvefret , how many shaves do you generally get with an AC blade?

Looking forward to your review of the DX.

 

[Twelvefret]

@Twelvefret , how many shaves do you generally get with an AC blade?

Looking forward to your review of the DX.

Just guessing, but around 10 with this Super Pro blade. I retired a Pro Guard blade that had been in the SS and then later in the Jokmae yesterday with maybe 15 uses.

Something I didn't know until yesterday, from Maggard's web site,
" The "Professional Super" blades are designed for those with a heavy or coarse beard. Blade performance is equal to that of a 6/8 or 7/8 size traditional straight razor - A bit more aggressive to meet the demands of a tougher beard. In addition to a greater blade thickness the blade is also a bit wider allowing greater edge exposure. If you have a tough beard and want to delay the appearance of five o'clock shadow until well after sunset, the "Professional Super" blade is your choice.

I am going to begin to take the razor head apart after use and cleaning the inside spring and the blade after use. This is something I have read is recommended. This might prolong the edge as well.

Let us know if you get a "woody".

 

[Twelvefret]

A discussion on the AC Feather blade varieties. He recommends starting with an unguarded blade. I was not aware of the irritation factor for guards.
Styles of Artist Club Single Edge Blades

 

[Twelvefret]

Something else I learned, the DX metal section extends through the handle whereas the SS handle does not. The extra weight for the DX is said to be an advantage.

 

[Twelvefret]

Additional thoughts relating to the three designs and four blade types:

There is available the Super Pro, Pro, Pro Guarded and Pro Light. There use is also a guarded version that uses a soft material for the guard referred to as the Pro Soft.

The DX exposes the most blade, the SR and SS less.

The Super Professional is wider, thus providing the most blade exposure.

The AC Feather Light is more narrow exposing less blade

The Pro Guarded has a similar with as the Professional, but has the wire guards so same exposure

The AC Feather SS is said to be mild because of the design of the head where the blade extrudes.



I've been using the wider Super Pro for a few years in the SS and will be interested in using them in the DX. All of this has caused me to realize this may provide the ultimate adjustable razor since adjustable DE or SE are based on blade exposure, correct?