Driverless Cars

Vacumatic

Vacumatic

Testy
I have been following the developments in terms of driverless cars, I am sure I am not alone. News is that the cars programmers are going to be held responsible in respect of any liabilities arising out out of any serious accidents caused by car. I think that will be nothing less than bizarre and I would doubt that the risk could be insurable. To add a further complication, the proposed Law says that there must always be a driver in the drivers seat but sorting out the responsibility of who did what and when is doing to be a lawyers dream come true.

The driver must also be sober so the idea that you can get behind the wheel of your Tesla when you are blotto and say 'take me home' is just not going to wash.

Speaking of driverless, some of you may know that the trains on the Docklands Light Railway are driverless. A friend of mine enjoyed sitting at the front of the train peering through the windscreen and living out his childhood dream. Four elderly ladies entered the car and they also wanted to sit at the front, and together. One of them sat next to my friend but another had to sit further back. After ten metres of travel she dug eight fingernails into his thigh, he stood up in shock, the old girl shouted 'Quick Gladys, now's your chance'.
 
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Rufusdog

Forum GOD!
I must say that driverless cars hold little appeal for me. Having said that they could be a great improvement give the proliferation of yahoos and incompetents behind the wheel today. In our area there is a noticeable lack of enforcement of the rules of the road in recent years: speeding, illegal lane changes, disregard of traffic lights and stop signs, etc. Nevertheless, I love to drive. I’ve a 2005 BMW Z4, 3.0L with a 6 speed manual. It’s a real joy to drive and much more pleasurable than my day-to-day car, an Audi S5 with an auto transmission and Turbo 6, not to mention all the other bells, whistles and sensors I’ve never used (and don’t know how to use). I guess I’m just old fashioned, or living in the past as my wife tells me, but I’ve had a driver’s licence for nearly 60 years. Old pleasures die hard.
 
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R181

Grumpy old man
For me it is a big no thank you to driverless cars. I can handle some automation in cars and do find some useful in my old age. The smarter we make cars the dumber the drivers become is my view and they are dumb enough now as it is. I have seen what automation has done in industrial production to the skill level of the people operating the machinery. When I started in the pulp mill the operators ran the machinery by their accumulated learned skills or seat of their pants if you will. That generation is now gone and if the automation goes down the current batch of operators have a hard time to restart production and keep it running by the seat of their pants. They just don't have the intimate connection to the machinery they are operating the older generations did. You are now seeing that happen with driverless cars.

Bob
 
UKRob

UKRob

Forum GOD!
R181 said:
For me it is a big no thank you to driverless cars. I can handle some automation in cars and do find some useful in my old age. The smarter we make cars the dumber the drivers become is my view and they are dumb enough now as it is. I have seen what automation has done in industrial production to the skill level of the people operating the machinery. When I started in the pulp mill the operators ran the machinery by their accumulated learned skills or seat of their pants if you will. That generation is now gone and if the automation goes down the current batch of operators have a hard time to restart production and keep it running by the seat of their pants. They just don't have the intimate connection to the machinery they are operating the older generations did. You are now seeing that happen with driverless cars.

Bob
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Having said that Bob, automation has definitely lifted manufacturing standards in terms of quality. My working life started in 1966 when tool setters were classed as skilled and machine operators were classed as semi skilled - but within a few years CNC machinery (once programmed properly) produced products at the tolerances required time after time after time.
 
slapo

slapo

It's... alive!
R181 said:
For me it is a big no thank you to driverless cars. I can handle some automation in cars and do find some useful in my old age. The smarter we make cars the dumber the drivers become is my view and they are dumb enough now as it is.
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I suspect the idea is just to allow people not to drive if they don't want to, or cannot.
Removing drunk drivers could be one thing.
Imagine if, say, you're unwell, perhaps can't talk well, but manage to get to your car and push the big red emergency mode button and the car would drive you to the hospital.

The downside is that a lot of the drivers are worse drivers than they think they are. It also isn't the only area where self-perception is different from reality, just nature of people.

R181 said:
I have seen what automation has done in industrial production to the skill level of the people operating the machinery. When I started in the pulp mill the operators ran the machinery by their accumulated learned skills or seat of their pants if you will. That generation is now gone and if the automation goes down the current batch of operators have a hard time to restart production and keep it running by the seat of their pants. They just don't have the intimate connection to the machinery they are operating the older generations did. You are now seeing that happen with driverless cars.
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I think UKRob makes a good point.

I suspect the machinery is different from what it used to be back then.
If it is, then I suspect it became more complex/complicated and its capabilities are also somewhat different, so it would make sense people would have a tougher time dealing with situations where automation is suddenly unavailable.
 
Vacumatic

Vacumatic

Testy
R181 said:
For me it is a big no thank you to driverless cars. I can handle some automation in cars and do find some useful in my old age. The smarter we make cars the dumber the drivers become is my view and they are dumb enough now as it is. I have seen what automation has done in industrial production to the skill level of the people operating the machinery. When I started in the pulp mill the operators ran the machinery by their accumulated learned skills or seat of their pants if you will. That generation is now gone and if the automation goes down the current batch of operators have a hard time to restart production and keep it running by the seat of their pants. They just don't have the intimate connection to the machinery they are operating the older generations did. You are now seeing that happen with driverless cars.

Bob
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It is the reliability concern when the car is on its third owner and has left the main dealer network, parked at the side of the road when the Morris 1000, Bel Air or Accord goes by.

As someone once said, no point creating a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.
 
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R181

Grumpy old man
UKRob said:
Having said that Bob, automation has definitely lifted manufacturing standards in terms of quality. My working life started in 1966 when tool setters were classed as skilled and machine operators were classed as semi skilled - but within a few years CNC machinery (once programmed properly) produced products at the tolerances required time after time after time.
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Yes, as long as the automation performs properly. It is when it goes for a dump that the problems start and there is nobody left who can operate well in manual mode.

Another caveat relates to 'once properly programmed" and generally programmers may not have an intimate knowledge of what is trying to be accomplished by the machinery itself. It can take quite a while to sort things out if they are willing to listen to a skilled operator in the first place.

We used to have the same sort of problem with engineering when an improvement was suggested by an operator. By the time engineering put out the proposed improvement it was an overly complected setup that left the originator scratching their head.

Bob
 
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R181

Grumpy old man
Estariol said:
The smarter everything is made, the dumber people become.
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Yes, having to think less about and deal with the situation/task/reality that you are actually in at the moment makes that possible. OTH. some automation that is well implemented can greatly help in lowering stress people encounter in daily living and working. The human autonomic nervous system is a good naturally occurring example of this.

Bob
 
UKRob

UKRob

Forum GOD!
R181 said:
Yes, as long as the automation performs properly. It is when it goes for a dump that the problems start and there is nobody left who can operate well in manual mode.

Another caveat relates to 'once properly programmed" and generally programmers may not have an intimate knowledge of what is trying to be accomplished by the machinery itself. It can take quite a while to sort things out if they are willing to listen to a skilled operator in the first place.

We used to have the same sort of problem with engineering when an improvement was suggested by an operator. By the time engineering put out the proposed improvement it was an overly complected setup that left the originator scratching their head.

Bob
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Technology moves on apace Bob. The time I was referring to involved new technology with a new material - aluminium whereas everyone was used to steel. The factory I worked at started a new machine shop alongside a canal - within a few months they had to dredge the canal free of aluminium scrap that the night shift had not declared. The point I’m trying to make is that no one died in the learning process.
 
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R181

Grumpy old man
UKRob said:
Technology moves on apace Bob. The time I was referring to involved new technology with a new material - aluminium whereas everyone was used to steel. The factory I worked at started a new machine shop alongside a canal - within a few months they had to dredge the canal free of aluminium scrap that the night shift had not declared. The point I’m trying to make is that no one died in the learning process.
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Sorry, totally missed the point you were trying to make about nobody dying in the learning process.

Bob
 
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