A new razor comming

[Nord Razors]

Do you have any time scale for the testing?

I am polishing the last two parameters now, and I should be done by the end of January. Then, I will start printing (what will take a few days straight), followed by shipment. So if everything goes well, you should receive parcels from me mid-February.

On your end, you should take your time.
What I noticed with many is that changing a razor to a new one (or even a blade) is quite harsh and the very first shave with new equipment is often not nice. That's why I will ask you to shave with razors at least twice before start rating - this is crucial for proper feedback. No rush, don't change your shaving routine - I will wait.

I chase the BBS like a greyhound.

I hope I can help you with that

I will stop for now, I don't want to hijack your great thread.

I appreciate feedback really a lot, so please feel free to continue. There are many details to consider and think through.
I think it's not only valuable to me to deliver a better product, but also quite interesting to you to see the work behind the scenes and influence what's being done.

I already created a razor which works just perfectly for me, but the razor is not supposed to be only for me once it reaches the market. I think that's the biggest worry of all manufacturers - razors which works for us, might not work for the majority.

 

[Randy]

I am polishing the last two parameters now, and I should be done by the end of January. Then, I will start printing (what will take a few days straight), followed by shipment. So if everything goes well, you should receive parcels from me mid-February.

On your end, you should take your time.
What I noticed with many is that changing a razor to a new one (or even a blade) is quite harsh and the very first shave with new equipment is often not nice. That's why I will ask you to shave with razors at least twice before start rating - this is crucial for proper feedback. No rush, don't change your shaving routine - I will wait.



I hope I can help you with that



I appreciate feedback really a lot, so please feel free to continue. There are many details to consider and think through.
I think it's not only valuable to me to deliver a better product, but also quite interesting to you to see the work behind the scenes and influence what's being done.

I already created a razor which works just perfectly for me, but the razor is not supposed to be only for me once it reaches the market. I think that's the biggest worry of all manufacturers - razors which works for us, might not work for the majority.

From your reply only, I can clearly see that you have a plan.

And I like talking with people with a plan.

It's also true, that trying a razor for the first time, you may not like it at all. I will definitely take my time with the testing.

One of my razors I like the most, but it's far from the best in the market, is the cheap Yaqi Slant. I like the efficiency and the blade feel, BUT , when it comes to the ATG pass , you must pay way too much attention to shave the difficult areas. Of course this tests your technique, but it's uncomfortable.

Some other razors that I have are very smooth but don't give BBS even if you overshave the areas with the risk of irritation.

Some other razors are way too aggressive for no reason, because they don't seem to shave deeper than a Goodfellas Impero (very nice razor).

For example, Fatip Grande Gold. Didn't like it.

Again, I'm not an expert but I have OCD with the BBS. And I know what I like. I rather grow a beard, than leave hairs back unshaved.

PS: I don't judge a razor from the WTG pass only, ATG is most important for me and how easy a beginner can find the right angle.

With some razors you lose the angle and the razor doesn't shave.
With some others, when you lose it, it digs into the skin.

Also, I hate blade chattering, it has become even dangerous for my sensitive skin and I only realize it when the alum touches my skin after the shave.

 

[Nord Razors]

From your reply only, I can clearly see that you have a plan.

And I like talking with people with a plan.

It's also true, that trying a razor for the first time, you may not like it at all. I will definitely take my time with the testing.

One of my razors I like the most, but it's far from the best in the market, is the cheap Yaqi Slant. I like the efficiency and the blade feel, BUT , when it comes to the ATG pass , you must pay way too much attention to shave the difficult areas. Of course this tests your technique, but it's uncomfortable.

Some other razors that I have are very smooth but don't give BBS even if you overshave the areas with the risk of irritation.

Some other razors are way too aggressive for no reason, because they don't seem to shave deeper than a Goodfellas Impero (very nice razor).

For example, Fatip Grande Gold. Didn't like it.

Again, I'm not an expert but I have OCD with the BBS. And I know what I like. I rather grow a beard, than leave hairs back unshaved.

PS: I don't judge a razor from the WTG pass only, ATG is most important for me and how easy a beginner can find the right angle.

With some razors you lose the angle and the razor doesn't shave.
With some others, when you lose it, it digs into the skin.

Also, I hate blade chattering, it has become even dangerous for my sensitive skin and I only realize it when the alum touches my skin after the shave.

Hmm, I can actually see some pattern here, but correct me if I'm wrong.
What I think you might like is a rigidly clamped blade, positive exposure, and a wide range of the shaving angle. The blade gap might not be that important for you while chasing BBS with ATG, but it shouldn't bother you either.

Here is why I think that and how I approached these issues while designing the razor:

As you mentioned at the very end, the blade chatter. Some say it doesn't exist, some are certain it does. I don't know if it exists or not, but I know that in my case, clamping the blade very closely to the edge has improved shaving drastically. This was the best improvement yet.
However, the problem with the clamping distance is that once you clamp it very closely to the edge, normally you need to offset the guard, and by offsetting the guard, you lose range of the shaving angle. In addition, offsetting the guard decreases design possibilities when it comes to, e.g. neutral shave angle.

I solved this issue by creating the grooves under the blade, which means that I don't need to offset the guard and I am not restricted when it comes to the guard span and the neutral shaving angle. In fact, I think my razor might be the most rigid blade razor on the market, with a clamping distance of around 1 mm, while still keeping regular cap and guard spans.
Cap and guard spans are definitely the most difficult parameters to test, as different combinations of two of them provide different results, and I am still struggling to fully understand how to use them. These are the parameters I am testing now, hence the elongated testing period of these two - it's just a pain in the neck.

The next is the blade exposure influencing the range of the shaving angle the most. It's the easiest way to improve it, but of course, a razor becomes aggressive if overdone. Or does it really...?
I actually noticed something super strange, and have been testing it way too many times, as I simply cannot accept it. I noticed that in my razor the blade exposure of around 0.15 mm is more aggressive than exposure of 0.25 mm. I don't know how and why, but it's grinding my gears whenever I try to find an explanation.

I can also assure you that my razor is very predictable, so it really shouldn't nick you.
I remember my first shave with a DE safety razor, Muhle R89. Ended up with many nicks and massive skin irritation. It makes me laugh when I think about it now, but it only shows how much technique I was missing, and how important it is.
I think I already mentioned this before, but let me repeat: last week I gave one of my razor to my brother-in-law who has never shaved with DE. He even didn't read/watch any beginner’s guide, but the shave was great for him. Not even a single nick, smooth skin without irritation. Who would have thought with the 1.50 mm blade gap razor and 0.10 mm blade exposure? I was really impressed, but I am still not sure of what - his hidden talent or the razor?

 

[Holyzeus]

@dawid every reply i read of yours makes me wish i had jumped on the list. Very insightful.

 

[Nord Razors]

@dawid every reply i read of yours makes me wish i had jumped on the list. Very insightful.

Thank you @Holyzeus! That's really nice to hear.
That said, let's make it 11 then.

 

[Randy]

Hmm, I can actually see some pattern here, but correct me if I'm wrong.
What I think you might like is a rigidly clamped blade, positive exposure, and a wide range of the shaving angle. The blade gap might not be that important for you while chasing BBS with ATG, but it shouldn't bother you either.

Here is why I think that and how I approached these issues while designing the razor:

As you mentioned at the very end, the blade chatter. Some say it doesn't exist, some are certain it does. I don't know if it exists or not, but I know that in my case, clamping the blade very closely to the edge has improved shaving drastically. This was the best improvement yet.
However, the problem with the clamping distance is that once you clamp it very closely to the edge, normally you need to offset the guard, and by offsetting the guard, you lose range of the shaving angle. In addition, offsetting the guard decreases design possibilities when it comes to, e.g. neutral shave angle.

I solved this issue by creating the grooves under the blade, which means that I don't need to offset the guard and I am not restricted when it comes to the guard span and the neutral shaving angle. In fact, I think my razor might be the most rigid blade razor on the market, with a clamping distance of around 1 mm, while still keeping regular cap and guard spans.
Cap and guard spans are definitely the most difficult parameters to test, as different combinations of two of them provide different results, and I am still struggling to fully understand how to use them. These are the parameters I am testing now, hence the elongated testing period of these two - it's just a pain in the neck.

The next is the blade exposure influencing the range of the shaving angle the most. It's the easiest way to improve it, but of course, a razor becomes aggressive if overdone. Or does it really...?
I actually noticed something super strange, and have been testing it way too many times, as I simply cannot accept it. I noticed that in my razor the blade exposure of around 0.15 mm is more aggressive than exposure of 0.25 mm. I don't know how and why, but it's grinding my gears whenever I try to find an explanation.

I can also assure you that my razor is very predictable, so it really shouldn't nick you.
I remember my first shave with a DE safety razor, Muhle R89. Ended up with many nicks and massive skin irritation. It makes me laugh when I think about it now, but it only shows how much technique I was missing, and how important it is.
I think I already mentioned this before, but let me repeat: last week I gave one of my razor to my brother-in-law who has never shaved with DE. He even didn't read/watch any beginner’s guide, but the shave was great for him. Not even a single nick, smooth skin without irritation. Who would have thought with the 1.50 mm blade gap razor and 0.10 mm blade exposure? I was really impressed, but I am still not sure of what - his hidden talent or the razor?

I start from the end.. definitely the razor and not his talent.

But your post is unbelievable.

Also thanks for opening the list. Holyzeus is an experienced wet shaver!!

 

[slapo]

Hmm, I can actually see some pattern here, but correct me if I'm wrong.
What I think you might like is a rigidly clamped blade, positive exposure, and a wide range of the shaving angle. The blade gap might not be that important for you while chasing BBS with ATG, but it shouldn't bother you either.

Here is why I think that and how I approached these issues while designing the razor:

As you mentioned at the very end, the blade chatter. Some say it doesn't exist, some are certain it does. I don't know if it exists or not, but I know that in my case, clamping the blade very closely to the edge has improved shaving drastically. This was the best improvement yet.
However, the problem with the clamping distance is that once you clamp it very closely to the edge, normally you need to offset the guard, and by offsetting the guard, you lose range of the shaving angle. In addition, offsetting the guard decreases design possibilities when it comes to, e.g. neutral shave angle.

I solved this issue by creating the grooves under the blade, which means that I don't need to offset the guard and I am not restricted when it comes to the guard span and the neutral shaving angle. In fact, I think my razor might be the most rigid blade razor on the market, with a clamping distance of around 1 mm, while still keeping regular cap and guard spans.
Cap and guard spans are definitely the most difficult parameters to test, as different combinations of two of them provide different results, and I am still struggling to fully understand how to use them. These are the parameters I am testing now, hence the elongated testing period of these two - it's just a pain in the neck.

The next is the blade exposure influencing the range of the shaving angle the most. It's the easiest way to improve it, but of course, a razor becomes aggressive if overdone. Or does it really...?
I actually noticed something super strange, and have been testing it way too many times, as I simply cannot accept it. I noticed that in my razor the blade exposure of around 0.15 mm is more aggressive than exposure of 0.25 mm. I don't know how and why, but it's grinding my gears whenever I try to find an explanation.

I can also assure you that my razor is very predictable, so it really shouldn't nick you.
I remember my first shave with a DE safety razor, Muhle R89. Ended up with many nicks and massive skin irritation. It makes me laugh when I think about it now, but it only shows how much technique I was missing, and how important it is.
I think I already mentioned this before, but let me repeat: last week I gave one of my razor to my brother-in-law who has never shaved with DE. He even didn't read/watch any beginner’s guide, but the shave was great for him. Not even a single nick, smooth skin without irritation. Who would have thought with the 1.50 mm blade gap razor and 0.10 mm blade exposure? I was really impressed, but I am still not sure of what - his hidden talent or the razor?

I find the way Henson sorted this out interesting as well - they don't have blade support from the bottom quite as good, but they compensate for it to a decent extent by curving the top cap past clamping point, forcing the blade to bend as well.
As a result, while it isn't quite as smooth as razors that clamps the blade a fraction of a millimetre from the cutting edge, it's really close, especially at smaller blade exposures.
The advantage is that they can have a larger lather channel and lather+hair flow-though is better.

I'm wondering whether it would be worth having a stab at a design with two different angle guides, one for a shallower blade angle and another one for, say, 30 degrees.
That way, it would still be an autopilot razor, and users would have to common choices.

The downside is that such a design already exists in at least two razors - the Titaner TiGlide S1 and PAA META-4.
It works for me better in the META-4, which also happens to be nearly clog-proof.

 

[Randy]

I find the way Henson sorted this out interesting as well - they don't have blade support from the bottom quite as good, but they compensate for it to a decent extent by curving the top cap past clamping point, forcing the blade to bend as well.
As a result, while it isn't quite as smooth as razors that clamps the blade a fraction of a millimetre from the cutting edge, it's really close, especially at smaller blade exposures.
The advantage is that they can have a larger lather channel and lather+hair flow-though is better.

I'm wondering whether it would be worth having a stab at a design with two different angle guides, one for a shallower blade angle and another one for, say, 30 degrees.
That way, it would still be an autopilot razor, and users would have to common choices.

The downside is that such a design already exists in at least two razors - the Titaner TiGlide S1 and PAA META-4.
It works for me better in the META-4, which also happens to be nearly clog-proof.

The Henson seems like it wouldn't cut a thing. Is it true?

 

[slapo]

The Henson seems like it wouldn't cut a thing. Is it true?

As long as you'd have the angle guide flat on the skin, it'll shave.
It's the blade that cuts, not its holder. ;-)

 

[Randy]

As long as you'd have the angle guide flat on the skin, it'll shave.
It's the blade that cuts, not its holder. ;-)

But if you try to find the blade inside this thing...

 

[Nord Razors]

I find the way Henson sorted this out interesting as well - they don't have blade support from the bottom quite as good, but they compensate for it to a decent extent by curving the top cap past clamping point, forcing the blade to bend as well.
As a result, while it isn't quite as smooth as razors that clamps the blade a fraction of a millimetre from the cutting edge, it's really close, especially at smaller blade exposures.
The advantage is that they can have a larger lather channel and lather+hair flow-though is better.

I think the way Henson supports the blade is great, for the reasons you greatly explained.
Every time I read something technical on their website, I know that there is someone really knowledgeable behind it. It's really nicely engineered.

The lather channels in my razor are also huge, have a closer look at the section views. Also, because they are sloped in the direction where lather and hair are initially pushed by the blade while being shaved off, and because there are no dead spots where it could get stuck, the lather leaves the razor immediately.
I tested clogging with 4 day growth and managed to shave with one of my razors fully without rinsing it not even once. It did a great job, but I don't recommend it though - the lather starts to flow on hands, drops on the floor, etc. It's a mess.

I'm wondering whether it would be worth having a stab at a design with two different angle guides, one for a shallower blade angle and another one for, say, 30 degrees.
That way, it would still be an autopilot razor, and users would have to common choices.

I never shaved with Henson, so I cannot judge fully, but I actually don't understand the idea behind the fixed angle razors. I understand it might be a great feature for beginners, but I am not sure about more experienced shavers.
One of the biggest complaints they have been receiving from shavers is that their razors have too small range of the shaving angle. They even addressed this criticism on their website (at the really bottom of the page):
https://hensonshaving.com/pages/tec...wCwLM9v1PYrCEMDSGPwiEB0zITRZhOTWSH0Q2HOQCFO49

However, I am not buying their explanation and I have no idea how they came up with the range of 35 deg.
Blackland Blackbird with the blade exposure of around 0.10 mm claims that the shaving angle is 2.9 deg (two point nine, not twenty nine), and Henson has much smaller blade exposure, hence the range shall be smaller too.

Let's assume that a razor has neutral blade exposure (I know it's not the case for Hanson, but it doesn't matter when it comes to the evaluation methodology). To me, such a razor has no range of the shaving angle at all. If we were to calculate that there is some range of the shaving angle with the blade exposure of 0.00 mm, then we would need to assume how much skin deflects and goes under the shaving plane, how much pressure is used, etc. And I am pretty sure that every manufacturer of razors would assume different values, providing us with numbers which don't correspond to reality.
That's why I definitely prefer the approach of Blackland, because to me it's more honest.

I dislike small range, but perhaps I should print one like Henson, as it's rather a quick fix from the design perspective. I need to give it a shot to understand.

The Henson seems like it wouldn't cut a thing. Is it true?

They are quite popular on the market, and many shavers appreciate the auto-pilot feature. Their razors are getting really positive reviews, especially when it comes to the rigid blade.

 

[Holyzeus]

The various Hensons do have many devotees, I wasn’t one of them due to the very narrow angle.

 

[slapo]

I think the way Henson supports the blade is great, for the reasons you greatly explained.
Every time I read something technical on their website, I know that there is someone really knowledgeable behind it. It's really nicely engineered.

The lather channels in my razor are also huge, have a closer look at the section views. Also, because they are sloped in the direction where lather and hair are initially pushed by the blade while being shaved off, and because there are no dead spots where it could get stuck, the lather leaves the razor immediately.
I tested clogging with 4 day growth and managed to shave with one of my razors fully without rinsing it not even once. It did a great job, but I don't recommend it though - the lather starts to flow on hands, drops on the floor, etc. It's a mess.

I never shaved with Henson, so I cannot judge fully, but I actually don't understand the idea behind the fixed angle razors. I understand it might be a great feature for beginners, but I am not sure about more experienced shavers.
One of the biggest complaints they have been receiving from shavers is that their razors have too small range of the shaving angle. They even addressed this criticism on their website (at the really bottom of the page):
https://hensonshaving.com/pages/tec...wCwLM9v1PYrCEMDSGPwiEB0zITRZhOTWSH0Q2HOQCFO49

However, I am not buying their explanation and I have no idea how they came up with the range of 35 deg.
Blackland Blackbird with the blade exposure of around 0.10 mm claims that the shaving angle is 2.9 deg (two point nine, not twenty nine), and Henson has much smaller blade exposure, hence the range shall be smaller too.

Let's assume that a razor has neutral blade exposure (I know it's not the case for Hanson, but it doesn't matter when it comes to the evaluation methodology). To me, such a razor has no range of the shaving angle at all. If we were to calculate that there is some range of the shaving angle with the blade exposure of 0.00 mm, then we would need to assume how much skin deflects and goes under the shaving plane, how much pressure is used, etc. And I am pretty sure that every manufacturer of razors would assume different values, providing us with numbers which don't correspond to reality.
That's why I definitely prefer the approach of Blackland, because to me it's more honest.

I dislike small range, but perhaps I should print one like Henson, as it's rather a quick fix from the design perspective. I need to give it a shot to understand.

I'm pretty sure the gist of it isn't having a fixed angle, but to make sure the angle is consistent by providing a flat surface that one put onto skin and just go with it, regardless of whether one is a beginner or an experienced user.
I do agree that the range of angles Henson cite seems to be off, though.

Angle guides (if not fixed angles) in razors are actually quite common - most of the time, there's one built into the base plate. Edwin Jagger DE89 has one, non-adjustable Merkur CC designs have it as well, the META-4 has it, RazoRock BBS and Baby Smooth have it and other designs as well.
They do not have it in the top cap, however, so if one were to use a wider blade, such as a KAI, or if one used a larger exposure model (e.g. the BBS AS), then it allows for a wider range of angles, too.

I know some people say they like a range, but I wonder whether that range is there to actually help people compensate for not being able to keep the angle consistently with positive exposure razors (which can help e.g. on their more rounded features).
That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I think it helps explain why people's results vary so much with different razors, in addition to differences in prep, lather, hair characteristics.

This might be a silly question, but why do you prefer a range of angles to a fixed angle?

 

[Chris]

The Henson seems like it wouldn't cut a thing. Is it true?

Not at all, works fine.

 

[Nord Razors]

This might be a silly question, but why do you prefer a range of angles to a fixed angle?

I know some people say they like a range, but I wonder whether that range is there to actually help people compensate for not being able to keep the angle consistently with positive exposure razors (which can help e.g. on their more rounded features).

That's exactly the reason. It requires less effort to keep the razor cutting, especially while going for ATG on the neck.
It's not that I have a problem shaving with neutral/negative exposure razors, but it's just easier for me to do it when the range of the shaving angle is wide. It happened to me to get grumpy when I shaved the lather off but not the hair, because my angle was not right.

But you convinced me, I need to print one like Hanson and try it out. Perhaps I am missing something obvieus.