natural, synthetic, slurry, swarf?

[neiasden]

okay, synthetic or natural stones? who has proof that one is better than the other and why?

do slurries really do anything?, has anybody done the exact thing with and without to compare? my thinking is, sometimes there's too much overthinking. put the metal across the stone and it should shave, right?

 

[Estariol]

Right and wrong, unfortunately. The razor is sharp to shave with once after the bevel is set, which means i.e. after a 1000 grit: stone, both natural or synthetic, or diamond paste on balsa, or lapping film, or even sandpaper. But... HOW will it shave? Rough. So you CAN shave with it, but not only you won't enjoy it, more likely you'll hate it or be disappointed.
That is the reason the blades are being honed with higher grits, to polish and refine the edge, so the shave can get smooth and a lot more comfortable, in other words - a joy.
As for the natural vs. synthetic vs. diamond paste vs. lapping film vs. sandpaper, the slurry - no slurry and wet or dry honing, it's up to the more experienced gentlemen here to educate you.
I can tell only this, following my logic. If it really was how you stated above, no one would bother collecting many different stones, which dont come cheap. They'd all have a few of the same or similar specimens and that would be the end of it.

 

[neiasden]

thank you"Estariol, post: 573021, member: 3270"]
Right and wrong, unfortunately. The razor is sharp to shave with once after the bevel is set, which means i.e. after a 1000 grit: stone, both natural or synthetic, or diamond paste on balsa, or lapping film, or even sandpaper. But... HOW will it shave? Rough. So you CAN shave with it, but not only you won't enjoy it, more likely you'll hate it or be disappointed.
That is the reason the blades are being honed with higher grits, to polish and refine the edge, so the shave can get smooth and a lot more comfortable, in other words - a joy.
As for the natural vs. synthetic vs. diamond paste vs. lapping film vs. sandpaper, the slurry - no slurry and wet or dry honing, it's up to the more experienced gentlemen here to educate you.
I can tell only this, following my logic. If it really was how you stated above, no one would bother collecting many different stones, which dont come cheap. They'd all have a few of the same or simular specimens and that would be the end of it.
[/QUOTE]

Right and wrong, unfortunately. The razor is sharp to shave with once after the bevel is set, which means i.e. after a 1000 grit: stone, both natural or synthetic, or diamond paste on balsa, or lapping film, or even sandpaper. But... HOW will it shave? Rough. So you CAN shave with it, but not only you won't enjoy it, more likely you'll hate it or be disappointed.
That is the reason the blades are being honed with higher grits, to polish and refine the edge, so the shave can get smooth and a lot more comfortable, in other words - a joy.
As for the natural vs. synthetic vs. diamond paste vs. lapping film vs. sandpaper, the slurry - no slurry and wet or dry honing, it's up to the more experienced gentlemen here to educate you.
I can tell only this, following my logic. If it really was how you stated above, no one would bother collecting many different stones, which dont come cheap. They'd all have a few of the same or simular specimens and that would be the end of it.

thank you for your reply. this wet shaving gets more complicated every day LOL, and I do not even shave, very often.

the answer was what I expected. and I was wondering exactly what you answered. why are there so many freaking Stones LOL collecting the razors is hard enough now the stones LOL. again, thank you for your reply it answered my questions and I appreciate you

 

[Estariol]

You're welcome. As i've said, only the more experienced gentlemen here can answer your questions about the differences in honing tools. My wild guess about acquring many different stones would be gaining experience and trying out new, different honing progressions.

 

[BlacknTan]

okay, synthetic or natural stones? who has proof that one is better than the other and why?

do slurries really do anything?, has anybody done the exact thing with and without to compare? my thinking is, sometimes there's too much overthinking. put the metal across the stone and it should shave, right?

I have no proof as to which is better, and I'm sure no proof exists. It's purely a personal decision.
Synthetics are extremely efficient and predictable, and can give a great shave. Personally, I prefer to finish on naturals, but this decision goes beyond pure utilitarianism. I like to shave traditionally, for the most part, and that influences my decision. But, I can get a great shave off synthetics also, if I don't go too far... A synthetic edge, for me, can get a bit crispy.. But I'm OK up to 12K, with a light touch whilst shaving.

Slurries... On natural stones, creating a slurry is very useful to use the stone to it's greatest extent. It will make the stone more aggressive, and act like a lower grit rating, performing pre-finisher duties, or tailoring your finisher to your face. With nearly all my naturals, I finish on varying stages of slurry, generally a misty slurry, or thinned a good bit. For me, it just provides a smoother, more comfortable, less biting shave.

But, all I've said is relative to the user... We develop methods that we like and that work for us as individuals...

There are no "right" or "wrong" answers... We all must follow our own path.

 

[neiasden]

greatE="BlacknTan, post: 573086, member: 253"]
I have no proof as to which is better, and I'm sure no proof exists. It's purely a personal decision.
Synthetics are extremely efficient and predictable, and can give a great shave. Personally, I prefer to finish on naturals, but this decision goes beyond pure utilitarianism. I like to shave traditionally, for the most part, and that influences my decision. But, I can get a great shave off synthetics also, if I don't go too far... A synthetic edge, for me, can get a bit crispy.. But I'm OK up to 12K, with a light touch whilst shaving.

Slurries... On natural stones, creating a slurry is very useful to use the stone to it's greatest extent. It will make the stone more aggressive, and act like a lower grit rating, performing pre-finisher duties, or tailoring your finisher to your face. With nearly all my naturals, I finish on varying stages of slurry, generally a misty slurry, or thinned a good bit. For me, it just provides a smoother, more comfortable, less biting shave.

But, all I've said is relative to the user... We develop methods that we like and that work for us as individuals...

There are no "right" or "wrong" answers... We all must follow our own path.
[/QUOTE]
great answer. thank you. I couldn't figure out what the dilemma was when I started researching it. probably because I've only used one razor. before I started getting into it I just wanted to know what and why. I do know that mine does pull and catch but I do not use any shaving cream and I only do my neck most of the time. I have Norton 220, 1000, 4000, 8, 000, and a shepton 12000. that's as high as I planned on going so when you said what you did it confirmed my thinking. with this process you should have a shave ready razor, right?

I have a unique story, I just don't want to restore a razor and auction it as shave ready and have someone give it a less than positive review LOL I want to be sure it's being done right. thanks again for taking the time for such a in-depth reply

 

[SammieM]

Bill is on the money. He summarised it quiet well.
I just have to mention that the Hsapton you have might not be as fine as the Naniwa 12k. Perhaps more in the 10k range. Most manufacturers use different grit ratings, so difficult to compare them. However most people agree that the Naniwa 1000 is similar to the Shapton 1500…
Again, as Bill mentioned, the natural stones provide a smoother feel for me in the face especially with slurry.
I have some Japanese stones that can leave the edge very polished and they can rival superfine diamond paste or CBN, but the edges are usually crisp. Leaving a bit of slurry tames the edge significantly and provides a much more comfortable shave…

 

[neiasden]

Bill is on the money. He summarised it quiet well.
I just have to mention that the Hsapton you have might not be as fine as the Naniwa 12k. Perhaps more in the 10k range. Most manufacturers use different grit ratings, so difficult to compare them. However most people agree that the Naniwa 1000 is similar to the Shapton 1500…
Again, as Bill mentioned, the natural stones provide a smoother feel for me in the face especially with slurry.
I have some Japanese stones that can leave the edge very polished and they can rival superfine diamond paste or CBN, but the edges are usually crisp. Leaving a bit of slurry tames the edge significantly and provides a much more comfortable shave…

all of you guys sound like you know what you're talking about. I read through Old Post just to try to learn the lingo LOL. one guy did say that a razor was to crisp for him so when I hear you say one was crisp and you follow it up with using a slurry can temper that it makes sense I just haven't shaved enough with one to know. I spend all my time trying to learn how to restore them and sharpen them. starting at the very bottom, maybe a little under the bottom makes it difficult, but I'm gaining on it. thanks to you guys and you're sharing your knowledge