24-knot with glue bump that makes it 27. Avoid floppiness?

halvor

a most elusive fish
I got a knot off eBay a while back, one labelled Manchurian in fact, though to me it seems all silvertip. The issue is, however, that although the knot was sold as a 24 and the base plug indeed is 24, there is an excessive glue knot with a diameter of 27. In other words, I will be needing an opening that is >27mm. (See caliper image below.)

How should I proceed I order to make the most of this knot, I wonder? It clearly would have had a higher density effect had it been set in a 24 rather than 27 handle. Should I compensate by setting it deeper? The knot is 70mm tall.

IMG_2572.JPG IMG_2573.JPG IMG_2574.JPG
 

wazza

a dog got personality
That is normal to be honest, maybe not so much with a 3mm difference but the knot gets larger further up the knot due to the glue.
The best thing to do is if its for a 24mm hole then go for a 22mm knot.
Saying that though, I usually just widen the handle if possible to be able to fit the biggest knot. Most of my knots are set at around 50mm, so normally I widen the hole a couple of mm and squeeze the knot in there. The tighter the hole, the better, so to speak.
 

Gordy

Legendary Member
I can't imagine you're going to be able to set that very deep. I'd send the pictures to the seller and ask for a refund.
 

wazza

a dog got personality
I can't imagine you're going to be able to set that very deep. I'd send the pictures to the seller and ask for a refund.
Depends on the handle. Sometimes you have to get a smaller knot to fit. Its only taking off 1.5mm around the circumference, sounds normal when I think of it in those terms actually, rather than thinking of it as 3mm.
 

Gordy

Legendary Member
Depends on the handle. Sometimes you have to get a smaller knot to fit. Its only taking off 1.5mm around the circumference, sounds normal when I think of it in those terms actually, rather than thinking of it as 3mm.
I get that normally but is the glue bump not further up that the base of the knot though? It looks that way with the calipers photograph.
 

wazza

a dog got personality
I get that normally but is the glue bump not further up that the base of the knot though? It looks that way with the calipers photograph.
The glue can go as far as 15-20mm, so it gets wider. I guess this is to hold its shape, which has not been a problem for myself as I set the knots around 50mm.
I've noticed depending on the supplier, knots cam be a little rough around the edges, bigger glue knot and rogue lose hairs. This looks fine though.

Where is the knot from @halvor ?
 

halvor

a most elusive fish
I should have included a photo of a knot from Brad for comparison, to show how I think they should be constructed. On that, the diameter of the base is the same all the way. I am with Gordy on finding the bump on this knot to be reproachable [right use of word?]. Also, on this one, it's not like you can feel the bump as one piece, widening from the base; it just suddenly protrudes a bit up. I bought it in April, however, and won't go through the hassle of opening a case. Will rather try to find a handle and set it with silicone, see how it works out. Hence my q here.

So if I do manage to find a handle with a wide enough opening, do you think it is bound to lack backbone, demonstrating a total donut splay?
 

Quique

Forum GOD!
Hi Halvor

I set many brushes and always I need an oppening higher than knot measures

At TGN knots it is 2mm more, Whipped Dog 1,5 mm more and VigShaving is 2,5 - 3 mm more

The loft in the knot depends on the type of hair or your tastes. Only Shavemac set its knots to introduce it 1,5 cm on the handle
 

wazza

a dog got personality
If you set the knot into a handle at the desired height, it will be fine I reckon. I'm trying to think from past knots if the glue felt the same all the way up, can not remember tbh.
 

bakerbarber

Forum GOD!
Use your feeler gauge, depth rod, and see how much is in the middle. Effective loft.

From the top of the knot in the center and that will give you a good indication of the loft you want. Compare to some of the brushes that you have.

Not much you can do about the girth. I agree that it seems about normal for the plug base to be a few mm smaller than the part that will emerge from the handle.

You can get a lot of extra backbone by setting it lower in the handle but there's still a good chance that it will loosen up with use. Therefore I would say that you might consider using silicone or hot glue to set it temporarily. Say a couple weeks or months. I have some brushes that I set the knot in silicone nearly a year ago and they are quite solid still. Others that I have adjusted and was able to do so. Not so if you use epoxy the first time.
 
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ESBrushmaker

Forum GOD!
Artisan
I should have included a photo of a knot from Brad for comparison, to show how I think they should be constructed. On that, the diameter of the base is the same all the way. I am with Gordy on finding the bump on this knot to be reproachable [right use of word?]. Also, on this one, it's not like you can feel the bump as one piece, widening from the base; it just suddenly protrudes a bit up. I bought it in April, however, and won't go through the hassle of opening a case. Will rather try to find a handle and set it with silicone, see how it works out. Hence my q here.

So if I do manage to find a handle with a wide enough opening, do you think it is bound to lack backbone, demonstrating a total donut splay?
A lot of Chinese knots come through that way, unfortunately. On thing: have you tried the rubber band trick--placing a rubber band just above the glue bump, then test lathering the brush? It's a "cheat" I know, but doing that should give you a sense of how the knot will behave if set in a 27mm socket.
 

RandySp

Legendary Member
I reopen it because I found some really cheap Yaqis for 9 euro. It says that the glue bump is bigger in them.

What is that supposed to mean? Less or no splay at all?

The brushes are tuxedos.
 

halvor

a most elusive fish
I reopen it because I found some really cheap Yaqis for 9 euro. It says that the glue bump is bigger in them.

What is that supposed to mean? Less or no splay at all?

The brushes are tuxedos.
Suppose they mean vertically, ie inside the knot, thus effectively talking less free loft and a tighter knot. So less splay.

(My knot in the OP, otoh, was a case of horizontal glue protrusion, for lack of a better term.)
 

donnie_arko

Veteran
I reopen it because I found some really cheap Yaqis for 9 euro. It says that the glue bump is bigger in them.

What is that supposed to mean? Less or no splay at all?

The brushes are tuxedos.
I have a Yaqi with a high glue bump, and in action it wasn't a pleasurable sensation to the face. As for splay, that is dependent on the density, my one splays well enough but it's not really pleasurable to use.

Yaqi to their credit did send out a replacement brush with a well set glue bump/actual loft.
 
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